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Does This Seem Strange to Anyone Else?

May 28, 2009

So a while back I decided to compile a list of all the blogs (co)written by submissive or switch men that I could find.

Why did I go to the trouble of compiling this list? Because I’m a masochist, obviously. Also my crazy little research instincts would not let me rest.

As far as I can tell from skimming a few posts off each blog, these are written by real and actual people experiencing what they claim they are. Most of the blogs are written by straight men who have been married to their partners for several years before coming out as submissive. Quite a few in this category are struggling with being legally or logistically bound to partners who are not dominant. Quite a few are written by men trying to ‘turn’ their wives dominant. Most of the authors are interested in or exploring Female Led Relationships (FLR) and Wife Led Marriages (WLM). Those where the relationship seems to have settled into a mutually fulfilling d/s dynamic are almost always entrenched in an Arthurian, Euro-centric paradigm. Fucking with the capitalization of pronouns abounds. Then there are the handful I circulate through constantly, hungering for updates. Blogs I read regularly to semi-regularly are marked with an asterisk.

I’ve written before about how much the Arthurian paradigm of male submission pisses me off. Nonetheless, as someone pointed out, if that’s legitimately someone’s kink, then Godspeed to them. But it seems really fucking shady to me that this is all there is. I know looking at blogs is not a good indication of demographics, since not everyone expresses themselves in a written and/or hi-tech format, but it’s the only plug-in to the kink community that I have consistently. I’m pretty sure this is true for a lot of other people too.

I have probably missed some well-known mansubs and manswitches, and might have netted a few people who do participate in these dynamics but who don’t identify as kinky. Be warned.

  1. All For Her
  2. All Hers
  3. AarkeyBabble
  4. At all Times
  5. Being Her Knight
  6. Client Nine and a Half
  7. The Daring Adventures of Switch and Boy *
  8. Denying Thumper *
  9. Destiny and her pet chance
  10. The Edge of Vanilla *
  11. The Enchanted Ranger
  12. Everyone Needs a Love Tap Now and Then *
  13. Exploring Wife Led Marriage
  14. Forever in Her service
  15. The Glow Inside
  16. Happy Wife… Happy Life
  17. Hardwired Submissive Man
  18. Her househusband’s life
  19. Her Majesty’s Plaything
  20. HERS Forever
  21. High Maintenance Queen – “True stories of success, failure and everything in between of a fun loving fellow trying to turn a high maintenance wife into the dominatrix of his dreams.”
  22. The Hitching Post
  23. journey into a wife lead marriage
  24. Maybe Maimed But Never Harmed *
  25. Mistress Lady Vixen and adonis
  26. The Mystress and the Paladin
  27. Notes on an Unremarkable Life
  28. On Female Dominance of the Male
  29. The Path Least Chosen
  30. Ramblings of a Slave
  31. The Road to Self Understanding
  32. Serving Her Majesty
  33. slaveboy in Marital bliss
  34. The Slave Within *
  35. Sub-burbs
  36. SUBMISSIVE GUY
  37. Submissive Little Man
  38. The Sub Scribe
  39. Surrendered to Princess
  40. Starting a Femdom Marriage
  41. Under Her Spell
  42. Under The Boot
  43. Unspeakable Axe *
  44. whatevershesays
  45. Yes, I’m a Submissive Man!
  46. Young Sub Hub

This is soooooo disheartening.

74 Comments leave one →
  1. May 29, 2009 2:16 pm

    Hey, I’m in the Top 10!

    But wait – I’m not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, according to you. What’s the disheartening part of this? That you’ve got 4 dozen blogs? You expected more? Or that most of them follow the traditional paradigm?

  2. ranat permalink*
    May 29, 2009 4:31 pm

    You get to be in the list of people who are not scarily stereotypical.

    It is disheartening that all but seven or eight of them follow the traditional paradigm. Oh-so-disheartening.

  3. May 31, 2009 11:14 am

    Wow, I don’t think I’ve run across even half of those. Of the ones that I have, Thumper’s, Tom Allen’s and Maymay’s are the only ones that don’t depress me. The majority of blogs I’ve found by men married to vanilla women in particular are…grim.

    Especially reading the comments. They all pep-talk any sign of, “improvement.” Except it’s the same “improvement” over and over because the other guy’s wife isn’t kinky.

    I sort of feel like I’m watching “the guys” all get together on the weekend to watch the big game on HDTV and cheer on their favourite team.

    Which is losing.

    Pretty badly.

    I’m not sure what my point is here. Except, god, it should obviously be so much better than this.

  4. Bean permalink
    May 31, 2009 11:38 am

    Oooh, and I just realised I forgot Axe ‘cuz he’s down at the bottom in alphabetical order. (No attention span here.) So that’s four.

  5. May 31, 2009 6:08 pm

    Heh – you wrote “don’t depress me” and I quickly read that as “don’t impress me.”

    But I’m totally with you on the majority of married men blogs. I was musing on this the other day, and wondering if there was something wrong with me because I feel like I’m in such a minority. Except I really hate to read the daily “My Mistress/Princess/Goddess asked me pick up her dry cleaning on th eway home form work. I really think this lifestyle is starting to appeal to Her!” messages.

    To tell the truth, I think that I can no longer distinguish between the dozen or so of them in my blog reader. And if any of you are reading now, well, sorry guys, but c’mon – you all sound alike! And furthermore, some of you are just simply too painful to read; you’re trying so hard to force your relationship into some mold that you are missing the potential enjoyment that you could have by following some other model.

    Frankly, that’s why I hate to be lumped into the malesub category: I don’t want to be associated with the whiney “I wish my wife would swallow a magic pill that would turn her into Mistress Cruella” league.

    :ahem:

    Thanks for letting me get in on this rant :-)

  6. ranat permalink*
    May 31, 2009 10:29 pm

    @Bean and Tom Allen: Yeah, the sheer volume of hopeful repetition is one of the most depressing parts for me.

    “Starting a FemDom Marriage” and “Yes! I’m a Submissive Man” were basically the first two actual blogs on the subject I ever found. Everything else was Elise Sutton and shit. I ate up those blogs, wrung every drop I could out of them because they were the only things I could find.

    I often wonder if it’s the same way with the way femdom is fucked. Crushed and desperate, people go searching on the internet, and these are the kinds of resources they find. So that’s what shapes their conception of what the community is like, and the way they ‘should’ be in order to fit into the community. I wouldn’t have found Bitchy Jones if it hadn’t been for a woman telling me about her in person. And without finding Jones, I never would have found Maymay or Sara Eileen, and from them the other people and so on. The internet search odds are not in our favor.

  7. ranat permalink*
    May 31, 2009 10:34 pm

    Oh, I also read “Hardwired Submissive Man” a lot when I was first starting out.

  8. June 1, 2009 1:59 pm

    The fact that Internet search odds are so depressingly abysmal is a matter of signal versus noise. Raise the signal, improve the odds.

    I kick myself almost every day I don’t create some new content on the Internet for losing that battle. But it’s an endless battle and I’m so tired.

  9. June 1, 2009 8:24 pm

    “Yes…Submissive Man” makes me want to throw up. Since 2004 he’s been posting essentially the same things: snippets of personal ads, and bits of his own theory of what femdom should look like. He lives in New York, for crying out loud, and in five years he hasn’t met somebody?

    Feh. Thank Eris I’ve got people like May around to give me some perspective.

    But yes, when I first started blogging, those blogs were my first links, too. Hell, I’ve read almost all of those at one time or another, simply because that paradigm is the one that is the most widespread.

    In fact, lately I’ve been feeling a bit out of place, but I’m not sure what to do about it.

  10. ranat permalink*
    June 2, 2009 1:44 am

    @Maymay –

    “I kick myself almost every day I don’t create some new content on the Internet for losing that battle. But it’s an endless battle and I’m so tired.”

    I feel you there, though I’ve only been in the fight for a few months. Honestly, I think trying to raise the signal is like throwing a pebble at an avalanche. Every now and then you might bonk someone and bring them into sanity, but the rest… What has to change is the culture, and the only way I know of to effectively change culture is to bypass the old one while creating it. Which is still challenging and hard. Part of creating that culture might be in virtual world, but I think more of it will be created face-to-face.

    @Tom Allen –

    “In fact, lately I’ve been feeling a bit out of place, but I’m not sure what to do about it.”

    I don’t know what to do either. I feel out of place in The Scene for my understanding of my sexuality and my worldview, and I feel out of place among people who share my worldview who have never even considered that there are other sexualities besides straight, gay, and bi. And who assume that my sexuality is a result of trauma. It seems like it’s always one or the other.

  11. June 4, 2009 3:38 am

    Hey, lookie there! I got me an asterisk!!

    i guess this is a bad time to say i’m going to start fucking with pronoun capitalization…?

    In any event, thanks for what I *think* is a vote of confidence.

  12. ranat permalink*
    June 4, 2009 4:17 pm

    @thumper – It’s not so much any of the individual complaints that damn so much as piling them on top of each other. :P

  13. devastatingyet permalink
    June 4, 2009 11:45 pm

    This reminds me how I wish Jos (my boyfriend, author of The Slave Within) would update his damn blog occasionally, since he is actually kind of reasonable (and I think that comes across online) and not one of those, “She asked me to hold her purse while we were in a shoe store! I think she knew I had a giant hard-on! We’re getting more FLR every day!” guys.

    *sigh*

  14. June 5, 2009 2:04 am

    @Dev – That’s kind of funny, since you seem to be popular with a lot of those guys.

    A couple of years ago I was asked to join a particular FLR group that was pretty much a bunch of guys beign sympathetic to each other, and giving each other those little pep talks. “She told you to hold her purse while she was in the dressing room? Seems like your wife is starting to get the hang of it, Bob. Good for you!”

    That’s not why I left, though. What made me crazy was the protocols. Almost all of the guys had a Goddess, Empress, Princess, Mistress, or some other capitalized relationship. And Eris forbid anyone (like me) suggest that maybe they need to be more assertive with their partners with regards to having conversations about desires, needs, etc.

    I think I go through periods where I get really, really tired of hearing/seeing this and I need to step back for a while to get perspective.

  15. devastatingyet permalink
    June 5, 2009 3:33 pm

    I’m not sure why I’m popular with those guys except that maybe (a) I am a real live dominant woman, while still (b) seeming kind of “human” (insecure, etc.) like their wives. I don’t know, though.

    I have to admit I sometimes find those blogs a bit irresistible despite how predictable and cyclical they are.

    Now I’m worried that Thumper will think I’m talking about him. I’m not talking about you, Thumper!

    And, yeah, I am not into the Goddess/Empress/Princess titles either. Jos calls me Mistress, which was his choice, but I could easily go title-free as well (or be called “Sir” – that would be hot).

  16. June 5, 2009 5:17 pm

    Just wanted to say thanks for assembling all these links together. Everybody has their own flavor of kink, reasons for blogging/reading blogs, hot-button issues, passions. Whatever the personal taste, it’s nice to have more option, gathered in a handy list!

  17. ranat permalink*
    June 5, 2009 6:36 pm

    @Dev – Sir would be pretty hot. I have found those kinds of blogs irresistible in the past, mainly because there is practically nothing else. I’ve decided to just give up on them though, and give myself the space to be able to conceive of something different. I just feel so… done with “kink.” Not done with being what I am, not done with plugging into the only community I know of where people share my desires, just done with these paradigms. They were enough to keep me afloat until I am where I am. They served that purpose, and now I want to find something else.

    @Her knight – Yes, my cynical, judgmental side did find it ironic that many of the people I rant about would find this a useful list. But whatever. It is what it is, and people are free to use it how they may.

  18. ranat permalink*
    June 5, 2009 6:42 pm

    @Tom Allen –

    “I think I go through periods where I get really, really tired of hearing/seeing this and I need to step back for a while to get perspective.”

    I have done some stepping back of my own, and I see that femdom is fucked.

    I don’t mean this in a ‘And we will all be miserable and sad forever’ kind of way. I don’t think femdom can actually be fixed (though for a while I did think it could be made more palatable). I have reached the point of ‘It was made broken. Bypass it, and make something else.’

  19. June 5, 2009 10:51 pm

    Ha! You’ve reminded me again why almost all of the texts about kink I chose to read when I started reading was by gay people, and by het people where the women were sub and the men dom. Most of the stuff I came across by het submissive men and dom women just seemed too strange.

    For learning purposes I don’t care whether I get turned on or off, or which gender’s which.

  20. ranat permalink*
    June 6, 2009 8:52 pm

    @Ranai – Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of gay kinky porn that was much hotter than het porn, and I’ve used mandom/womsub scenarios in reverse for fantasies.

  21. allforher permalink
    June 9, 2009 8:35 pm

    I don’t know if I’m on the “good” or “depressing” side, but as they say, there is no such thing as bad press. ;p

  22. ranat permalink*
    June 17, 2009 12:29 am

    @allforher – There is that.

  23. July 5, 2009 12:33 am

    Thanks for compiling this list, and I basically agree with you. My relationship is not so typical as you might think: It evolved over a period of many many years and I started as the dominant and occupied that role for a while, then we switched roles and now I am the submissive partner (and loving it). I also agree with Tom’s point that a lot more straightforward talk about desires and what partners want from their sexual relationship would go a long way to clarifying the torment that many sub-males-trying-to-convert-their-wives go through.

    Best regards,
    Thomas (Mistress Laura’s Boy).

  24. July 6, 2009 4:00 am

    I have to admit that when I write it’s more of a vent for my own thoughts. Often it’s a ramble but it’s not designed to be anything for anyone other than me. That said I openly admit that I love to hear the opinions of others if they comment on my thoughts.

    The more I hear the thoughts and opinions of other self proclaimed D/s folk, the more I realize I’m far from understanding what this is all about as it fits into my own life.

    There’s still more learning to do.

  25. July 16, 2009 7:34 am

    I’m pretty sure I’m on the “depressing” side. You know, wanting to explore my submissive side, introducing the idea to my (vanilla-labelled) wife, experimenting with a new dynamic, wondering if it’s going to work in our marriage, using the blog as an outlet, talking with other guys, that kind of thing.

    Sorry for disheartening you.

    If it really annoys you, though, you could always not read it.

  26. ranat permalink*
    July 16, 2009 1:48 pm

    @Thomas – I’m glad that your relationship with your partner is fulfilling to you. My goal in compiling the list was not to damn individual blogs (except possibly the blog where I included the tag-line because it was so godawful), but to identify a trend among many blogs that has several decided biases that are not necessarily healthy.

    @Strongnsubmissive – The blogosphere is definitely one of the places where one can communicate with others who share the same sexual desires, and it has the benefit of shrinking (or at least altering) geographic disparities. For me it has its challenges, though.

    @Steve Mayhew – I repeat what I said to Thomas above: My goal in compiling the list was not to damn individual blogs (except possibly the blog where I included the tag-line because it was so godawful), but to identify a trend among many blogs that has several decided biases that are not necessarily healthy for submissive men or dominant women. You are correct in assessing that it is entirely my choice whether to read many of these blogs, and I exercise that choice by not doing so.

  27. July 17, 2009 1:08 am

    Hmmm. I really don’t like the construction of this list, for a variety of reasons.

    My goal in compiling the list was…to identify a trend among many blogs that has several decided biases that are not necessarily healthy for submissive men or dominant women.

    Oh yeah, so why did you hyperlink all of them? Had some time to kill? Coincidentally, you alerted all the owners that we were part of your “Arthurian paradigm of benighted disappointment” or whatever you want to call it. Or, that we might be on the wrong side of your list. Some of the post smells like in-out grouping to me, and a lot of the comments fucking reek of it. “We have real kinky relationships. These other people don’t!” Out comes the label gun. Fuck that.

    Also, I doubt that you have actually read enough of most of these blogs to comment on their real character – in fact you have said that you haven’t – so I can’t see how any real analysis of this kind could have been constructed. Therefore I doubt that “identifying a paradigm” was your real agenda, at all. You could have done easily enough without naming all of the blogs, to begin with, and certainly without indulging in meanspirited remarks about their content. I think your readers are going to know the sort of blog you mean without that.

    For the record, I don’t get a lot out of many of these blogs either and withdrew some time ago from making “progress” posts as though my relationship were a train stopping at well-known femdom stations before we “got there”.

    But even for guys who are still posting that stuff, and still struggling with a dynamic that never quite seems to get started, I don’t see how your self-appointed “Oh, it should all be so much better” stance does anyone any good. I think it’s just a way of promoting yourself as “real”, while others are not.

    I get that you are looking for a way of being dominant that’s outside of a male-constructed paradigm…so is my wife, I respect it…but if that’s your thing, then why go to the trouble of listing all these blogs that you haven’t really read, but which you think sit within this paradigm? As though the men responsible for them are thereby responsible for the shape of the kinky blogosphere? We’re not. We’re just sorting shit out.

    So basically, this post reads to me like this: “Here’s a list of blogs, most of which I don’t bother to read, because I’m so different to all of that.”

    And for all the imagery of wildness in here, I’m still left with the impression of some beleagured Brontean heroine, head in her hands, sighing “Oh, it’s all so disappointing” and waiting for the right man to make it all work out.

  28. July 17, 2009 1:10 am

    Aww, there’s some bad html in there.

    Everything below “submissive men or dominant women” is mine, and shouldn’t be in italics.

  29. July 17, 2009 1:50 am

    @Steve Mayhew:

    I think your readers are going to know the sort of blog you mean without that.

    Thanks for proving Ranat’s point.

    So basically, this post reads to me like this: “Here’s a list of blogs, most of which I don’t bother to read, because I’m so different to all of that.”

    What’s so wrong about that? I blog for two main reasons, and one of them is to record my own actions for myself, not for anyone else. I don’t want to put words in Ranat’s mouth, but if your analysis of her intent here 100% accurate, I say good for her.

    And finally:

    And for all the imagery of wildness in here, I’m still left with the impression of some beleagured Brontean heroine, head in her hands, sighing “Oh, it’s all so disappointing” and waiting for the right man to make it all work out.

    This last comment of yours strikes me as being so strongly shone through your own prism you’re not even aware of the mindset you have towards it. Because, frankly, as you so eloquently put it in your own comment, fuck that.

  30. July 17, 2009 2:50 am

    I blog for two main reasons, and one of them is to record my own actions for myself, not for anyone else. I don’t want to put words in Ranat’s mouth, but if your analysis of her intent here 100% accurate, I say good for her.

    Well that’s nice, but if that was her real motivation, why pretend that this was some form of cultural analysis, based on her observations of a paradigm? Why cite all these blogs blogs to support her theory, if it was all just a form of personal exploration?

    You can blog just for yourself, sure; but if you are going to set yourself up as a critic, you can exect to get criticized in return. You can’t suddenly run back to the safety of “ain’t nobody’s business but my own.” Unless you have pretty big double standards to sort out.

    Thanks for proving Ranat’s point

    Ranat proved her own point. All I did was argue that she could have done so without listing, and linking, all these blogs. So this little snipe is pretty meaningless.

    This last comment of yours strikes me as being so strongly shone through your own prism you’re not even aware of the mindset you have towards it.

    Are you actually going to say why, or are you just going to question my right to speak with veracity, because you think the way I view the world is flawed?

    This is pretty one-eyed, coming from someone who has just defended the right for Ranat to speak without really considering what others might think.

    I don’t think much of Ranat’s “I’m so disappointed” posture, and I said so, quite agressively. That’s no more or less biased or “shone through a prism” than your own defense of her, or of many of the other things that have been said here. You just happen to disgaree with it.

    “You’re not even aware of the mindset you have towards it.”
    Man, what a pretentious, self-important thing to say. As if you are so on top of your own shit that you can tell from one post when another person is acting out of self-awareness, or otherwise.

  31. July 17, 2009 7:21 am

    Steve,

    As I’m the one who first said, “it should obviously be so much better than this,” and that I’ve found most of the submale/vanilla wife blogs I’ve found “depressing,” I thought I’d come back and clarify my comment some. It really wasn’t intended to be a sweeping condemnation of the men involved – although that might be the way it was taken.

    First, Steve – your blog is one I haven’t read. So I don’t know if what I’m about to say applies to you or not. As I said earlier, I haven’t read all of these blogs. (Although of the ones I have read, I’ve read them backwards and forwards.)

    I am not willing to say that my criticisms apply to ALL submale/vanilla wife blogs, or I wouldn’t be reading Thumper. I am also not (personally) claiming to be in a “better” kinky relationship, as you may know upfront that I’m not in a relationship at all.

    My point was more this:

    1) I’m frustrated with our society/dominant culture, which utterly devalues male submission. (Unless your name is Jesus, and you’re doing a really hardcore religious scene.) Of the blogs I’ve read, all of the men writing them repressed their submission for years before discovering themselves in marriages with wives utterly disinterested in kink.

    Do I find that depressing? Yes! I’m frustrated that their submission couldn’t have been something that they could have known about (if they didn’t entirely) and been open about from the beginning – with the cultural understanding that this is/can be an attractive quality in men.

    I mean, I’m sure these men all love their wives. I’m sure they’d also love the kinky wives they might have ended up with instead, had they not been led to think that they had to try to be people they were not.

    Possibly some or all of them would disagree with me on that(?). I am probably projecting some, because these blogs make me frightened for my own future. Every time I think, “Maybe I should give up on the whole kinky idea…forget all about it, and just fudge it with some vanilla guy instead,” I get a vision of myself in ten-twenty years…writing a blog. (Or whatever we’ll have instead of blogs in twenty years.)

    Today my partner let me pull his hair while we fucked! Maybe he’ll let me spank him soon! Oh god, no.

    But that’s how I see it, and what I meant by, “it should be better than this.”

    2) I also think I have a different perspective on this from, say, Tom Allen or Maymay. They’re maybe more focused on what cultural memes make up the concept of, “male submissive.”

    And, well, they have a point that if Type G submale gets all the airtime, nobody can even hear what Types A-F have to say. (And that’s a much larger problem than whether or not Type G exists in the first place, regardless of what Type G is like.) I’m not going to say they’re wrong to voice frustration about that.

    On a more personal level though, I get as much (and sometimes more) frustrated with the wives as I do with the husbands. One of the reasons I read Thumper’s blog is that his wife, Belle, actually meets him halfway. If she didn’t, I suppose his blog would just about as depressing as the rest I’ve read.

    That’s maybe not fair to the wives, either – I haven’t exactly got their perspective to compare notes with. They’re voiceless.

    But well, if Tom Allen gets annoyed by men trying to force a certain mold on their relationship when they could be following another (and truthfully, I have no idea what he could mean by that), I get annoyed with the wives for not…doing…ANYTHING…their husbands ask for.

    That is what I meant by saying these relationships, and all the guys cheering each other on, look so “grim.” Like they keep waiting for something to give that is never, ever going to give. And hell, I don’t know why it’s not going to give! I keep thinking, Surely giving a few orders can’t be that goddamn hard! You do a little kink, he does a little vanilla, everybody’s moderately satisfied. Basic math!

    I don’t know how uncharitable I am actually being by thinking that… I’m not there, I guess.

    I think that’s about it.

    Oh, but – I do think it’s a useful list, whether you agree with Ranat or not. (I mean, if you just wanted to know what was out there, or if you wanted to look for general patterns yourself.) Pingbacks are as much a curse as a blessing, though.

  32. July 17, 2009 7:23 am

    Oh, that’s bloody long. *blushes* I’ll take the book to my own blog now.

  33. July 17, 2009 8:02 am

    (grin) Like I said above, I agree with everything you wrote. Especially when considering that most of the cases, from out here, seem as if some clear communication and negotiation could leave everyone moderately happy.

    In my case, my wife and I are both competely nuts, flexible, and have good senses of humor, so it’s a good match. :-)

  34. July 17, 2009 8:09 pm

    Tom Allen gets annoyed with the men who *think* that they are in some kind of FLR because their wife (and 99% of the time they are married) read the first two chapters of Around Her Finger, and agreed… sort of… that it would be nice to have the house cleaned and their feet massaged on a regular basis.

    Okay, that’s not entirely correct. What annoys me — not that it’s any of my freakin’ business what people do with their lives — is watching months go by for some of these men, and seeing no progress, and yet, they don’t seem to *act* on that, preferring to bemoan the fact instead of perhaps, seeking marital counseling.

    I have no idea why it bothers me. I mean, it’s not as if I’m paying them money to entertain me.

    And this:
    Surely giving a few orders can’t be that goddamn hard! You do a little kink, he does a little vanilla, everybody’s moderately satisfied. Basic math!

    If only it were that simple. There is a cultural meme that makes it difficult to express one’s self as a (male) sub or bottom. Maymay is trying to turn some things around with his Images of Male Submission photo blog, but unfortunately, those images are only going to be seen by us kinksters, and *not*, unfortunately, by the wives of those of us who live mainly in the vanilla world.

    And I *do* get frustrated that the general conception — in the vanilla world, where we live, and where our wives live — of male submission is a sissified sissy maid who wants to be humiliated for his useless “sissy clitty.” Those images seem to be the ones that *coff* dominate the media, and in my thinking, are partly responsible for scaring the hell out of regular women. When their hubby comes home one day and says “I want you to read this book. I think I want to be dominated,” our culture — thanks to the media — have created a nightmare scenario for a lot of women who think that their 6′ tall 220 lb husbands now want to wear dresses and eat from a dog bowl.

    Women who are *barely* in touch with their own sexuality have no idea what to do with that. Unfortunately, they can’t get past those first images enough to try to meet in some area. And perhaps those images are so ingrained in those husbands that they, themselves, don’t even know how to express themselves another way.

  35. ranat permalink*
    July 18, 2009 4:40 pm

    @Steve – “Oh yeah, so why did you hyperlink all of them? Had some time to kill?”

    I hyperlinked them all because when I present a point, I cite my evidence and provide references for people who may want to go make their own conclusions rather than merely swallow my interpretation. Yes, I had far, far too much time to kill.

    “I doubt that “identifying a paradigm” was your real agenda, at all. You could have done easily enough without naming all of the blogs, to begin with, and certainly without indulging in meanspirited remarks about their content.”

    I could have constructed an allegedly objective analysis of blogs written by men identifying as submissive and switch in the form of an ethnography by performing extended interviews and presenting only the actual events on these blogs and not my interpretation– however I am not an ethnographer and have no desire to write like one. Objectivity is an artificial construct, and I have subjective experiences and reactions.

    My original inspirations for searching out all these blogs were to A) See if I could find more man-sub bloggers along the lines of Maymay, Tom Allen, Axe, and Thumper; B) To find trends in how the concept of men submissive to dominant women was treated and actually have the references rather than just the assertion. I did not find A, but I did find B.

    As for ‘mean spirited,’ I did write this post much more judgmentally than I could have. I was, and still am, profoundly frustrated by the fact that not only is my sexuality squashed into oblivion, but in the very few places where it manages to struggle through the cracks in the concrete, it is often a withered parody of what I maintain should be diverse and cherished forms of sexual expression.

    If the Arthurian paradigm were a part of that diversity, I would have little argument with it other than it is not to my taste and I believe people should understand the origins of the paradigms they work with. The Arthurian paradigm, however, is not part of a diversity of sexual expression of submissive men and dominant women. It is one of two forms grudgingly allowed to exist even within kink: ‘Piece-of-shit-slime-unworthy-inhuman-lick-my-vinyl’ and ‘Chivalrous-knight-and-divine-lady.’

    If anyone finds the Arthurian paradigm of submissive men and dominant women erotic, then they should feel free to explore their fantasies and desires without feeling held back by the angsty ramblings of one frustrated blogger. I will still feel frustrated if that is all that there is.

    “As though the men responsible for them are thereby responsible for the shape of the kinky blogosphere? We’re not. We’re just sorting shit out.”

    Of course they are responsible for the shape of this corner of the kinky blogosphere. Anyone who creates applicable content is responsible for its shape, because without that content, it wouldn’t exist. I am also responsible for some tiny part of the shape of the kinky blogosphere, because I write in it. Forty or more submissive men bloggers have much more power to shape the kinky blogosphere than I ever will as one of about five dominant women blogging about how this is all fucked.

    I think (though I may be incorrect) that your underlying point is protesting the idea that I assigned blame to these men, which on one level I did.

    To anyone whose blog I listed in this post and referred to derogatorily, out of frustration and hurt I wrote it like you were the source of the problem, and for that I apologize. You are not the source of the problem, the source of the problem lies deep in our culture and I believe that we are all, myself included, expressing some form of this cultural dysfunction because those ideas were all that were available to us. I have seen this expressed in kink through self-hatred, limiting paradigms, guilt, and repression. I believe the patterns I found by looking at all these blogs are valid, and I think we can learn something from observing and coming to understand those patterns and why they exist.

    “I don’t see how your self-appointed “Oh, it should all be so much better” stance does anyone any good. ”

    Yes, it should be better. It should be better for you, for me, for everyone who’s participated in this discussion, for anyone whose sexuality is about the exchange of control, power, or pain. It should be better because we are human people with the fundamental right to sexual acknowledgment and fulfillment. And like most other humans of any sexuality we are being denied that. And when we are actually allowed some tiny, stunted form expression by our culture, we are told to be grateful.

    I am not. I will not be grateful for cultural scraps, twisted by a production economy and twelve-thousand years of psychological scars from the subjugation of the land, genocide, and large-scale warfare. Every single one of us deserves better.

  36. ranat permalink*
    July 18, 2009 4:50 pm

    @Maymay – Thank you for your defense. :)

    @Bean – “And, well, they have a point that if Type G submale gets all the airtime, nobody can even hear what Types A-F have to say.”

    And types A-F are not thought to exist.

    @Tom Allen – “When their hubby comes home one day and says “I want you to read this book. I think I want to be dominated,” our culture — thanks to the media — have created a nightmare scenario for a lot of women who think that their 6′ tall 220 lb husbands now want to wear dresses and eat from a dog bowl.

    Women who are *barely* in touch with their own sexuality have no idea what to do with that. Unfortunately, they can’t get past those first images enough to try to meet in some area. And perhaps those images are so ingrained in those husbands that they, themselves, don’t even know how to express themselves another way.”

    I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, and expressed it in a much more concrete way than I did.

  37. herknight permalink
    July 18, 2009 6:54 pm

    OK, there’s been plenty on the theme of ‘Ur doin’ it wrong’ or what people find distasteful by their own standards. How about some models of what is desirable – couples, bloggers, people you’ve met who seem to be on the right track? What makes them stand out in a positive way?

  38. July 19, 2009 12:01 am

    To anyone whose blog I listed in this post and referred to derogatorily, out of frustration and hurt I wrote it like you were the source of the problem, and for that I apologize.

    Thank you. This is getting to the heart of the matter, at least as far as I am concerned.

    I do not think I am the source of the problem, at all. And nor are most of those other guys, either. We have just gotten caught out, like ‘offside’ strikers, and now we have to walk back with slightly sheepish looks on our faces, and wait for another chance that might not come.

    By the way, this ties in with my point about ‘blaming sub-males for setting up this thing on the internet, even though that is supposed to be the antithesis of what you are about,’ which I made on Dev’s blog, and you questioned there. I do think that on one level, you were blaming sub-male blogs for being the source the problem.

    And I do get offended by stuff like that – or at least, I get annoyed enough about it to come and say something. It’s not even been specifically applied to my blog, which is pretty light-hearted, but it has been to the sort of situation that I am in, generally.

    It would be like me making needless, mocking comments about women who want to be dominant, but then lack confidence in themselves, or can’t find a partner they like, or whatever. I don’t see that on the internet very often, at all – not in the places I go, anyway. And I wouldn’t contribute to such a discussion, if I saw one.

    But I do see married sub-males in difficult marriages getting bashed about, all the time. And some of them are probably being jerks, for sure, but if we all agree that ultimately, the problems are shared, social and deeply-rooted, then why the disparity between the amount of shit that gets served up?

    By “socialized” I simply meant the opposite of wild. I was suggesting that by setting yourself up as the disappointed critic, you are tying yourself down to a bunch of negative and rather tame stuff – like individually hyper-linking forty-six blogs, most of which you don’t like – and that the chance for wildness is lost.

    Anyway, I’m concluding that somewhere along the line, males are still held ultimately accountable for the shape of femdom. Which I think is getting it all backwards. By all means, lead me into a bold new era of consensual beatings and wild female dominant sex – but I don’t think you’ll get any of us there, in the first instance, by taking a swing at men for not getting the paradigm right.

    And incidentally…one of only five blogs by dominant women?

    I’ll see your five, and raise you about twenty. I think you could easily have done an analysis of the normative patterns in blogs by dominant women. It interests me that you have chosen to look at men instead.

  39. ranat permalink*
    July 19, 2009 12:51 pm

    @Steve – “‘blaming sub-males for setting up this thing on the internet, even though that is supposed to be the antithesis of what you are about,’”

    To a degree I do believe submissive men are largely responsible for the shape of ‘femdom’ on the internet because submissive men are the driving economic force behind femdom porn, the pro-heavy representation of dominant women, the prevalence of other sex services supposedly representing dominant women, and lots and lots of other sexual media that pushes stereotypical images of dominant women without representing their desires. Other parties responsible for this, not to be ignored in their vastness, include capitalism, patriarchy, and hierarchy.

    “I do think that on one level, you were blaming sub-male blogs for being the source the problem.”

    Yes, I unjustly did so. As I said in my earlier response: “I think (though I may be incorrect) that your underlying point is protesting the idea that I assigned blame to these men, which on one level I did.”

    “By “socialized” I simply meant the opposite of wild. ”

    By this definition, I agree with you. I was raised and conditioned in a civilized, patriarchal, hierarchical, capitalist, domesticated system. I don’t claim to have bypassed that or shed that conditioning, only that my goal is to. That is why the tag-line of the blog is ‘becoming wild again.’

    “One of only five blogs by dominant women? I’ll see your five, and raise you about twenty.”

    What I wrote was “As one of about five dominant women blogging about how this is all fucked.” I did not claim to be one of five dominant women bloggers, I claimed to be one of five who are discussing how the culture of femdom is meeting no one’s needs.

    “I think you could easily have done an analysis of the normative patterns in blogs by dominant women.”

    There is such a post already drafted, with seventeen blogs linked, further research pending. I extended my search criteria to ‘female-bodied people identifying as dominant, top, or switch.’ I have not decided whether to include pros in the list.

    “It interests me that you have chosen to look at men instead.”

    I am not sexually attracted to dominant women. I am sexually attracted to submissive men. I also believe they are an underrepresented minority in the kinky blogosphere, and I wanted to find out where they were. What I found did dishearten me.

    It did not dishearten me because of the individual blogs a point which I think is being missed here. Taken individually, most of these blogs can simply be seen as “Whatever, that’s how it’s happening in their life.” However, as a pattern that demonstrates that of the submissive men choosing to express the content on their lives in the internet, that many feel trapped in non-kinky marriages, many go to prodoms, that many attempt to ‘make’ their partners dominant, and what few have actually managed to make something work use almost exclusively two paradigms, tells me that not all is right with the world.

    The deeper questions I was trying to raise, which got muddied up by my inability to separate my feelings of disappointment and rage at the system that created this with the people who are also suffering from it, were these:

    1. Why is there so little diversity in the public femdom culture?
    2. Why is such diversity not only not acknowledged, but claimed not to be ‘real’ dominance/submission?
    3. Why is the Arthurian paradigm, which historically was a European social construct used to sublimate peoples’ sexualities and control the heredity and sexual autonomy of women, so prevalent in a subculture supposedly for dominant women and submissive men?
    4. Is it so prevalent because it is the only culturally visible positive alternative to “slime-lick-my-stilletos”?
    5. If so, why is it the only positive portrayal of male submission that leaks through cultural oppression?
    6. Why do so many dominant women and submissive men put up with only two paradigms to sexually express themselves?
    7. Why is the feminization of men equated with humiliation and submission?
    8. Why is male submission equated with emasculation?
    9. Why is male submission considered unmasculine, and unmanly?
    10. Why does femdom not encourage submissive men to embrace their submissiveness and their masculinity (even when their masculinity may not conform to cultural standards)?
    11. Why are so many submissive men trying to ‘turn’ their partners dominant rather than seeking dominant partners?
    12. Why does femdom turn dominant women into fetish objects rather than acknowledging their desires?
    13. Why do dominant women put up with it?
    14. Why do submissive men put up with it? Why do so many encourage it?
    15. What can submissive men AND dominant women do to change it?

    I could keep writing for a godawful long time.

    If my real goal had been to damn anyone on the list (with the exception of the blog where I included the tagline), I would have included all the fantasy blogs written by submissive men which are blatantly misogynist and dehumanizing. When I see these patterns among a sample of what I tried to be sure were real people describing their real experiences, I am disheartened. Because it is all fucked, and no one is getting what they need.

    Your criticisms have really helped me narrow down my premises and consciously separate my feelings about the systemic failure of the subculture and the people operating within it, for which I thank you.

  40. ranat permalink*
    July 19, 2009 1:10 pm

    @herknight – Many of the blogs I marked on the list with an asterisk stand out to me because the people involved do things that I personally place value on, which is another subjective judgment.

    Personally, I appreciate it when people:

    – Proactively communicate and seek out their desires
    – Do what feels good and hot, not what they’re ‘supposed’ to according to the author of a book or a writer on a website
    – If they realize a relationship is not working, they do something about it, even if that means ending the relationship or changing the nature of the relationship
    – Recognize that dominant and submissive partners are inherently equal, and that hierarchical expressions of d/s are fantasy and not reality
    – Have realistic expectations of their partners and honor their partners’ boundaries and needs.

    I’m not saying that every blogger I regularly read does all of these things, nor am I claiming that all the other bloggers in the list above don’t do any or all of these things. Some do, some don’t in both sets. However, those are some of the traits that make a blogger stand out to me and give me the impression that they’re doing what’s best for them in their relationship at the time.

  41. July 19, 2009 1:23 pm

    First, let me echo Ranat’s frustration from my own side. And Steve, you’ve been on my blogroll for a while, and you are one of the more “normal” people blogging about trying to explore something that just doesn’t have a pattern or model.

    I dont’ think that anyone is pointing to any one blogger (although I do make one exception) as a problem, nor as a bad example. I think that what we have are a group of people who frustrated with the current paradigms and don’t know what to do about it.

    And that leads me into this:

    1. Why is there so little diversity in the public femdom culture?
    2. Why is such diversity not only not acknowledged, but claimed not to be ‘real’ dominance/submission?

    I’m just thinking aloud here, but is it possible that there *is* more diversity than we realize, and we just don’t recognize them *because* they are different?

    Or suppose that those people who have different relationships are simply off the radar *because* they are different?

    Take me, for example. I’ve been told a few times that Mrs. Edge and I have a good femdom relationship, and I get categoriezed (for those people who tend to do that kind of thing) in the malesub lists. Yet, Mrs. Edge would never characterize herself as a Domme, and the only real kink that we have is chastity and OD play. I end up with quite a few non-kinky readers who are simply reading my blog for a little tittilation and a little bit about our relationship. And frankly, I dont’ *feel* like a kinkster, so I don’t particularly classify myself as one. Not that I wouldn’t mind, it’s just that in the context of our current relationship I don’t feel particularly kinky.

    And let me expand on that by saying I might not feel that way because I, myself, have too many of those old images in my head and it has colored how *I* see myself, as well as others. So perhaps I’m just as screwed up in my thinking as everyone else.

  42. July 19, 2009 1:29 pm

    Come on Ranat, we’re supposed to agree to and accommodate and adapt to anything that’s presented to us, aren’t we? We’re not supposed to say ‘No’ to something. We’re not supposed to say ‘I don’t want this’. A woman stating that there are concepts within the realm of human sexuality and relationships that don’t turn her on, piss her off, dishearten her. The cheek!

    ( These questions above [1-15] need to be asked, and I hope there’ll be more discussions on them.)

  43. July 19, 2009 2:37 pm

    I’m just thinking aloud here, but is it possible that there *is* more diversity than we realize, and we just don’t recognize them *because* they are different?

    @ Tom, I think there is some more diversity, but it’s still rather hard to find on the net. As has been mentioned above, internet search odds are not good. From my own experience I can say that in most material supposedly about dominant women and submissive men I initially came across, the repulsion factor was far too high – hence, by necessity, though in retrospect I don’t find it a drawback at all, my own concentration on material written by gay and bi people, switches, and dom men / sub women. And I’m talking written information material here, forget ‘femdom’ porn images with the repulsion factor exponentially higher.

    Re Male Submission Art, I’m getting the impression, from people who link there, that the site also is visited and enjoyed by people who aren’t actively kinky (or not so far), but just looking in and possibly developing an interest, because it touches something latent inside them. I’m not sure if the impression is correct or not; Maymay might be able to tell better. If this impression is correct, I find it a reason for hope.

  44. ranat permalink*
    July 19, 2009 3:03 pm

    @Ranai – I hope there’ll be more discussion too.

    @Tom – “I’m just thinking aloud here, but is it possible that there *is* more diversity than we realize, and we just don’t recognize them *because* they are different?”

    My feeling is that there *has* to be more diversity out there simply because with so many humans, diversity is going to crop up. I personally haven’t seen that diversity in the public subculture, though (ie the internet and the NYC Scene). Also, even considering the diversity of humanity, I believe that the dominant culture streamlines thoughts and idea patterns to something much more homogeneous (ala globalization and Western clothing styles, movies, and music), thus sabotaging humans’ natural tendency toward diversity.

    “And frankly, I dont’ *feel* like a kinkster, so I don’t particularly classify myself as one.”

    Based on your writing, I’ve honestly really never thought of you as submissive, but rather as into chastity and involved in kinky/BDSM/submissive man/dominant woman discussions. I’m still actually a little unclear about if you identify as submissive or not (if I went rummaging through your archives long enough I could probably find the answer). Your case also highlights the fact that not everyone who is into A is necessarily into B, C, D, K, and T. Sometimes people are just into A and it doesn’t imply a label or category unless they choose to identify as that.

  45. July 20, 2009 2:57 am

    I don’t self-identify as submissive. Over the years I’ve topped and bottomed and switched around, and at one point I probably did self-identify as submissive, but now I just tend to see myself as being generally kinky.

    Mrs. Edge had a much wilder streak when we were dating, and interestingly does not see herself as kinky at all, let alone dommish. She has, though, made it clear that she prefers to be in control and has never expressed any desire to be restrained.

  46. July 20, 2009 8:53 am

    Your criticisms have really helped me narrow down my premises and consciously separate my feelings about the systemic failure of the subculture and the people operating within it, for which I thank you.

    OK. Actually, I’ve found all this kinda thought-provoking too, but I’m coming to different conclusions – totally apart from my thoughts on normative group formation and kink.

    I’ve been thinking about my own participation on the internet for a while, and this has helped bring it to a head for me.

    I had two initial reasons to start blogging. First, and most honestly, it was “this turns me on, so I’m putting it up there, other people might like it.” Which is the kind of blogging I think I’ll go back to…for all that it might repulse various readers here, if they (accidentally) go there!

    Then there was also a genuine desire to connect with people who might be able to shed some light on my situation.

    But there’s this whole other thing, which I see other people doing, and feel myself moving towards, which is like: “Hey, look at this sociological observation I’m making about people’s relationships.” And then everyone starts trying to argue their positions in this really rational and informed way, like femdom university, with footnotes and stuff.

    And I can sort of see the appeal, but honestly, all the real satisfaction I’ve experienced has come through an acceptance that my sexuality is animalistic, unreformed, weird, and totally irrational. I kink on service, roller derby girls, bossy women with knives, orgasm denial and then being forced to come, selfish girls who hog all the wine, and women who try to pee standing up. If I can’t laugh at that, I’m fucked. I just gotta accept it, laugh, and work with it.

    And I’m finding the more time I spend intellectualizing my kinks on the net, the less I’m actually having fun with them. I don’t want to start trying to make my sexual preferences seem defensible and rational. I don’t want to try and make out they are somehow well thought out, and balanced. That’s the kind of thing that had me tied up in knots for my whole twenties.

    So anyway my point about the need to construct an analysis of blogs by women was basically rhetorical, designed to show that such a thing could be done, and was really just a way of pointing out that I thought sub-male blogs were just being used as an easy target here.

    I was kind of impressed that you were actually considering doing this because at least it shows some balance, but at the same time…if you’re really feeling so hacked off about the whole thing, are you sure that reading a bunch of that stuff is a good idea?

    If I were feeling that way, it would be the last thing I’d want to do.

    Anyway, genuinely, I do hope you find some guy to lay deer at your feet, and all that good stuff you like.

  47. July 20, 2009 8:54 am

    ah god, my html checking is hopeless.

  48. ranat permalink*
    July 20, 2009 6:14 pm

    “And I can sort of see the appeal, but honestly, all the real satisfaction I’ve experienced has come through an acceptance that my sexuality is animalistic, unreformed, weird, and totally irrational. I kink on service, roller derby girls, bossy women with knives, orgasm denial and then being forced to come, selfish girls who hog all the wine, and women who try to pee standing up. If I can’t laugh at that, I’m fucked. I just gotta accept it, laugh, and work with it.

    And I’m finding the more time I spend intellectualizing my kinks on the net, the less I’m actually having fun with them. ”

    Certainly my own understanding of my sexuality is still largely intellectual, and I agree that there’s a point where “That’s the way it is, that’s the way it works, have fun.” A lot of the abstraction that I write on this blog, though, is basically a combination brain-storming/sounding board for my process of accepting, understanding, and being my sexuality. Within myself I can feel what I think is my intrinsic sexuality (intrinsic not to be confused with genetic), and then how it got, well, ‘kinked’ by a culture that doesn’t accept it, oppresses, demonizes, and fetishizes it. When I peel back these layers in myself, what I find underneath feels so much more satisfying, because it is closer to what is truly me, what I truly desire. Writing it all out for comment helps make it concrete for me, and introduces ideas from others which can lead me in directions I didn’t consider before.

    I don’t set out to constantly think about my sexuality, it just happens. Some people feel no need to do this, and that’s what works for them. Ranai, for instance, has said a couple of times here that she doesn’t feel the need to figure out the why’s of her sexuality, and that’s what works for her.

    “if you’re really feeling so hacked off about the whole thing, are you sure that reading a bunch of that stuff is a good idea?”

    It is definitely an exercise in weighing potential benefits with loss of time and emotional energy.

    “Anyway, genuinely, I do hope you find some guy to lay deer at your feet, and all that good stuff you like.”

    Thanks. The deer part is not a problem, it’s just finding a submissive person to do it. Same sentiment to you in your explorations with Michelle.

  49. October 23, 2009 8:13 pm

    Re Male Submission Art, I’m getting the impression, from people who link there, that the site also is visited and enjoyed by people who aren’t actively kinky (or not so far), but just looking in and possibly developing an interest, because it touches something latent inside them. I’m not sure if the impression is correct or not; Maymay might be able to tell better.

    That impression is correct. It was, in fact, my intention from the hold the BDSM community to task for portraying male submissiveness in its narrow-minded and extremely sexist way, and to show people who would otherwise not consider using power-exchange terminology that what they are doing and seeing and enjoying also relates to the intersection of power and control with sexuality.

    If this impression is correct, I find it a reason for hope.

    Me too. I think the entire site is a reason for hope. And I’ll soon be posting more about that, as well.

  50. ranat permalink*
    November 3, 2009 4:04 am

    @maymay – I am bemused by this comment, since I’m not sure what it’s referring to. Are you responding to something earlier in the discussion?

  51. November 3, 2009 6:40 am

    Are you responding to something earlier in the discussion?

    :) Yeah. My comment is in response to the earlier comments I quoted.

  52. ranat permalink*
    November 3, 2009 5:59 pm

    Ah, mystery solved.

  53. October 19, 2011 9:55 pm

    I love all the goddies here. lovely !!!
    http://bdsmpassion.blogspot.com/

  54. August 7, 2013 9:36 pm

    So, here we are, 4 years alter, and I just happened to be searching for FLR-type blogs, preferably ones run by women. I Googled into this discussion, and realized that most of the blogs you’ve listed are long dead — except, interestingly, for the ones that you’ve noted as being non-traditional.

    But the bigger point is that 3/4 of those blogs are dead, and yet I haven’t found any decent replacement blogs that aren’t more of the same.

  55. August 7, 2013 9:53 pm

    I’m still here and in the same relationship with my wife, and I haven’t been blogging recently.

    Best regards,

    Tom

  56. August 8, 2013 2:19 pm

    Hi Thomas –

    I didn’t mean that the bloggers, themselves were dead :-)

    My point was that almost all of the blogs that were listed are inactive. Yes, blogging isn’t as big as Facebook or Tumblr, and it’s a bigger commitment to keep it up. But the ones that went dark the soonest were mainly the ones in which the guys were complaining about not being able to direct the relationship into what they wanted.

  57. August 9, 2013 12:59 pm

    @tom Allen you are right, directing the relationship is doomed. And a lot of the FLR blogs will look depressing. Incidentally, there are also some really depressing gay male submissive blogs out there.
    I think you’re looking at an intersection of things people aren’t very good at, as a rule, and that’s why so many guys are doomed to stew in misery of their own making.
    – we don’t have a culture of open, honest and vulnerable communication between partners. I had to learn, and am still learning it, through couples therapy
    – knowledge of self is essential for a successful D/s relationship, and that’s hard
    – re the above, people just take a model off the shelf, something they saw online, rather than figuring out who they are and what makes them happy
    – if the relationship is to be female led, the female has to lead. Trying to make a partner dominant is doomed from the start. What the sub can do is share wants, then hear about their partners wants. And put those first. “I want a massage from you, often” “yes, happily. Tell me when and i will”. Initially, a lot of translation will need to come from the sub. It helps to focus on the partner, not ones own buttons. And if the partner isn’t into that kind of dynamic? That’s tough, it leaves hard choices.
    – as a society, were terrible at validating sexual desires, and encouraging people to search out sexually compatible partners. If sexual compatibility is left as an afterthought, misery is sure to follow.

    for the guys that see something online and suddenly discover their kinky side, the hard choice can become: what’s more important, my marriage or my kink? Either answer can be true. But make sure it’s true, not just a result of current strong emotion. And be fair and loving to your partner. They have a very emotional mate to deal with who has desire that never came up before.

    There is a ray of hope, too: change requires strong emotion. Which will exist in spades in this situation. It’s possible to sit with it, to allow the emotion to be without expecting that desires be fulfilled right away. It’s possible to use that energy and channel it into plain relationship building, with the help of an outstanding counselor. Once partners can be vulnerable with each other, they can discuss most everything lovingly.

    Absolutely no guarantees ever that a partnership will survive one partner discovering a long-buried part: but I guarantee that good growth can come from it. Even something as simple as ‘I crave validation and emotional connection, and FLR struck a chord within me because of that. Lets see in what other ways I can get validation and connection”.
    That’s just one possible underlying dynamic. There will be one, though. And discovering it and sharing it is great.

  58. August 9, 2013 7:50 pm

    “people just take a model off the shelf, something they saw online, rather than figuring out who they are and what makes them happy”

    True. But, I can say from experience that sometimes figuring out what makes you happy is trying on the standard one size fits all stuff on the shelf and taking it out for a spin. The problem is it seems like too many people think (as I did, once upon a time) that there are only a few ways to be in the world and if something works for one guy, it may be how I am, too.

  59. August 9, 2013 7:52 pm

    Also, does it seem weird to anyone else that we’re having a conversation on a blog that appears to be dormant? It’s like we’re hanging out at a friend’s house that’s been vacant for a year.

  60. August 9, 2013 8:33 pm

    @thumper That’s a really good point. Point taken.

    I am happy to continue the discussion elseblog, if you want to pick the topic back up. I think it remains as relevant today as it was in 2009.

  61. August 9, 2013 8:58 pm

    Oh, it totally does. It just feels kinda creepy doing it at an otherwise dead blog. The comments previous to Tom’s were all spam. I don’t know where else to have it. Maybe one of us should blog about it!

  62. August 10, 2013 1:46 am

    Right you are. Done and done. One more voice added to the chorus.

  63. August 11, 2013 3:30 pm

    Whut the… I just went out to pick up a six-pack, and everybody’s gone again! Dammit!

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  3. the hapless husbands « Devastating Yet Inconsequential
  4. Real life « Denying Thumper
  5. “in-out grouping” « Devastating Yet Inconsequential
  6. Solo « Denying Thumper
  7. Authenticity « Denying Thumper
  8. Ignoring the label, and dealing with what’s inside « The Edge of Vanilla
  9. What We’re Expected to Be « beyond the hills
  10. Furnaces going cold | Denying Thumper
  11. I like Key Lime PieControlling Schnoff | Controlling Schnoff

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